Thursday, February 1. 2007The woman with 17 kids (and an 18th on the way)
Anti-contraceptive Manila Mayor Lito Atienza: "She must work 17 times harder."
 Luz Camarse, sitting in the center, is 42 and the mother of 17. Five of her kids are not in the picture. She uses the pedicab to earn a living by taking neighborhood kids to school and back. But a few of the kids don't pay, because they're hers. I met her in Pandacan while shooting a documentary about people living under the railroad tracks. She lives with her third husband, with whom she has six children. She is three months pregnant in the photo taken a couple of weeks ago. Her neighbors tease her for her "family planting." One would be tempted to nominate her for poster mom for irresponsible parenthood, until you hear her tell you her life story.
She married at 13 because of abusive parents. Early marriage was her only escape. She was unlucky with her first two husbands, then settled down with her current beau Berto, who has become too sick to help her earn a living and feed their still-growing family. But, she says, their neighbors envy their close relationship. And whatever the treatment she got from her parents, she seems to strive to be the opposite. Over a period of a few days, we observed her taking loving care of her kids, bathing and feeding them, and working hard to make sure they have a few pesos to bring to school. She says she no longer wants to have any more babies. But she's not sure how to stop. She knows she can't count on the local government in Manila for help. Condoms are banned from health centers. When Luz attended a recent political rally for Mayor Lito Atienza, he attacked artificial contraceptives like these were as harmful to society as guns and drugs. In an interview, I asked him what he would say to a poor mother of 17. Atienza: "She must work 17 times harder." At the mass she heard the previous Sunday, the priest called the use of pills and other contraceptives a betrayal of God (kataksilan). After mass, I interviewed the parish priest, Fr. Larry Abaco. The only advice he could give for people like Luz was to worker even harder. Both mayor and priest seem unaware of the health risks of frequent pregnancies. At a certain point, perhaps in her sixth month, Luz should no longer be pedaling kids to school, but that is her family's only livelihood. Mayor and priest advise her to work harder. Neither church nor state is offering her financial support. Trackbacks
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Typical of the church and state to say 'let them eat cake'. I am a Catholic but I've lost all respect for its leaders. They are so out of touch with reality. The priests are preaching 'blessed are the poor for they will inherit heaven' but they missed the fact that while they are here on earth then they are responsible for the kids they bring into this world. Our government leaders are mostly despicable. And I wonder why some people are too stupid to vote for them. They should do what Joe Taruc did in his 'Gutom' documentary. They should spend at least 3 days with their constituents and see how they live. Then and only then will they realize how they could even live with such meager resources.
The parents are also to blame. Why do they keep breeding like rabbits knowing they are not capable of feeding their kids? Ang tagal nang ganyan sa Pilipinas, the cycle of poverty is never ending. I can understand the frustration that some of you are feeling right now. But, let's backtrack a little bit in time when we we're under the spanish rule. To have as much children in a family is considered the norm of the times. This kind of misguided information handed down for decades by the spaniards have been embraced without question from our elders. Hence, the attitude of every filipino male that he has to have as many kids as he could possibly make in any given family. And women considered it to be a "blessing from god"if she could have as many kids in the household. This is actually a "catholic stuff" they claimed is good for the people. Did you ever wonder why there is actually a principle of "the separation of church and state" in the US of A? Well, the writers of the United States constitution have already thought about the church meddling with just about anything that the states wants to do, hence, this basic principle. In some states in the US of A, you cannot even put a manger in any government property without provoking those people who are against the church. Ironically, there is too much talk and not enough action on the part of the church concerning the population explosion that we're experiencing in the Philippines. Why is that? because, people still believed that, if they went up against the wishes of those in the pulpit, they would go to hell! But , this is all nonsense as you and i know it. They only have one good advantage in determining where the public opinion would go, and that is, in the political arena. If there is anyone out there who wants to know my opinion on this, here it is, i say let the church do what they do best, pray inside the church and don't bother what's going on in politics around them. In other words, i want to see a "hands off" policy on their part. That means, not even making any opinion or comment about what the government is doing.They are always in a way of progress and change in society. Go forth and multiply? give me a break! Oh by the way, are they being taxed by government? They should be.
Good point mr Aguilar, most of the church people dont know what they're talking about. I just wanna ask these, How much money this religious leaders get when they basbas the candidacy of a politician, is it an enormous amount brother? share some to Luz please. I wish i can help Luz someday and you know what Luz get up & get out of the dirt. Learn from your mistake.......... yes i'm saying that having a lot of kids in these politically illed country is a big big big huge mistake........................
Why do we always blame Spain for our own inadequacy? Sure, the Philippines was colonized by Spain but do we have to pass the buck to the Spaniards (of the longgggggggggggggg gone days)? The reason why the norm for a big family was that there was a need for it then i.e. 1) as additional farm workers, 2) old-age security of the parents, and unknowingly 3) to off-set the high mortality rate among children at that time. Thus, while there is a change in the way things are at present , i.e 1) reduction of family farms, 2) more emphasis on nuclear family, and 3) better health, lower mortality, it did not lead to a change in people's values and attitudes which favors high fertility. This is called cultural lag. The problem with the Philippines is that, there is no political will to keep the fence of separation between the church and the state. We dont want to be another American town where even the display of a lantern in a public property is debated but we do want a stronger political system. A political system that is based more on fact (i.e., scientific proof) than on personalities.
No one is blaming anybody here. No one said anything about hating people from Spain, it was the attitude and wrong biased philosophical wisdom that they thought the pilipinos centuries ago. It was no more than a "roaming medicine man" during the early american adventurism in the Philippines. The time when these people will introduced a "liquid potion" to the uneducated public and tell them that the liquid contained in the bottle would cure just about anything that was wrong in their body. That was then, when people were so naive and decided to embraced all the teachings of the catholic church, and if they don't, they will be burned in hell. Unfortunately, one of these teachings was about compliance with "GOD" and everything that it stands for. So, please, spare me the agony of remembering what those "spaniards" have done to the pilipino people coming from proven and verified historical accounts of what really transpired during their reign in the Philippines. Let's talk about F-A-C-T-S here okay, and not some quotations from the bible.
Before i forget, just recently the supreme court of the United States have made a major decision on behalf of those "boys" that have been sexually molested that the catholic church will indemnify families that have been wronged by members of their own catholic congregation. How's that for a good news? Please, keep your own views and or interpretation about the little book you called the "bible" to yourself, no one around here wants to hear it. I'm pretty sure that i'm speaking on behalf of some of the readers who based their views on proven, well addressed point of view. Just a thought. No one's blaming,,,, that was from me. Alundio Aguilar
Good morning. It is wonderful how quickly you get used to things, even the most astonishing.
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The problem rest mostly with our govt! and the church for that matter. USAID and other international donor organizations have over the years (ramos years) ran reproductive health programs in our country distributing free condoms and health information to the poor up to the barangay level. However, this program came to a stop once the church objected and the arroyo govt cave-in from pressure from the church and the pro-lifers. Now poor people have nowhere to go if they want to avail of free condom, IUDs, etc. since the govt and the church now only sanctions the "rythm method". This is actually around 60% or more effective, but what do you do if your drunk husband suddenly demanded sex on your fertile days?....bang you have a kid again.
Also remember one church priest on a documentary program long ago commenting on the issue (on how to feed more children) saying.... di naman problema yan! dagdagan mo na lang ng tubig yun sopas! : ( i agree, alam nyo bkit mtagal ng problema yan sa pinas kc puro corrupt ang mga nsa gobyerno lalo na ang presidente sa pilipinas.Si Gloria tama na lng sa salita wala nman ngagawa puro yabang na lng. Lahat na ipinangako wala nman ntutupad sa sampung salita walang tama!!! Kung bnibigyan nya ng trabaho yan mga mhihirap sguro msusulusyunan ang pagdami ng populasyon sa pilipinas. May presidente nga wala nman ngyayari puro psarap lng sa buahy kya kung ako sa inyo wag nyong iboto yun mga maka Gloria kc cla cla rin nman ang nyaman sa halip ng tulungan ang mga tao ang gnagwa nla eh puro pagnanakaw lalo na c GLoria!!
You know what anonymous... you're hopeless, you read it right hopeless. Gloria, Erap they're all the same.... Crooks....... I dont believe on pulitikos.. The best thing we gonna do is to help Luz.
di naman kailangan pang maging edukado ang isang tao para malaman niya ang tungkol sa pagkakaroon ng maraming anak. its a common sense na pag mas marami kang anak mas marami kang pera na kailangan kitain pra mapakain mo sila. (sorry, kung may maoofend) kung hindi ka makapagcontrol sa sex, "face d consequences". Eh, Nasarapan ka sa paggawa ng bata. Kaya kung mabuntis ka wag mo isisi sa kahit sino. ikaw bilang isang filipino citizen, alam mo kung anu makakabuti sa pamilya mo at sa bansa mo.
It’s a great post Man, you really are a good writer! I’m so glad someone like you have the time, efforts and dedication writing, for this kind of article… Helpful, Useful, and Charitable.. Very nice post!
Persuasive Essay Tüm dünyadaki okey oyuncuları ile aynı platform içerisinde sohbet ederek canlı okey oynamaya hazır olun. Okey oyna sizi eğlenceye ve heyecana davet ediyor.
İnternette görüntülü olarak gerçek kişilerle tanış, turnuva heyecanını yaşa. Dünyanın en büyük internet oyun portalı içerisine kayıt olun ve oynamaya hemen başlayın. Okey-oyna.com ile tüm dünyadaki oyuncularla sınırsız okey oyna, sohbet et ve eğlencenin tadını çıkar… Okey: www.okey-oyna.com .......... I don't get why some people still view contraceptives as something evil. I also don't understand why some Church leaders still propagate the "humayo kayo at magparami" idea.
I don't think the parents are entirely to blame here. Kulang kasi sila sa edukasyon at sa impormasyon. I think this is the root of the problem--as long as we have leaders who refuse to educate their people and let them make their own choices on the matter, ganito ng ganito pa rin ang mangyayari. Sayang ang demokrasya kung hindi rin lang nila hahayaan ang mga tao to make informed decisions about their own families by refusing them adequate information. Or is it because our own leaders need to be properly educated about the matter as well? kung wala nga namang alam yung magtuturo, ano nga naman ang ituturo nila? You are absolutely right about that, misguided, uninformed about the means to slow down if not to control the over burdening population explosion in the Philippines. And this "laizzey fair principle" by the church and government (a principle where both institutions had promised to themselves that they are not in any way meddle or put their noses to the affairs of the people) is nothing but a liability clause on their part. In a way, i got to handed it to them that they are very smart indeed doing this. Let me explain.
Not to do anything about the population for decades is a plus to them politically.Consider this, over time with the population in the Philippines getting out of hand, we are turning so much people around that sooner or later would become voters in their own right. And that's just that, voters! And the only way these politicians can sway their opinion to their favor was such an easy task indeed. Too many people vying for a few jobs would create unemployment, unemployment would undoubtedly equals hardships to people. And whenever society experienced hardship in life, they resort to desperation which in turn can be used by anyone campaigning for a political office in any given time. And the rest is history. Like i said in the past that if there is anyone out there who wants to be mayor, senator, governor or even campaigning to be a president, all he or she has to do or maybe, should i say had to have is to be able to act, sing, play a guitar or juggle a dozen mangoes on the stage in front of those same people he or she have created. This is of course my own political opinion. However, i am pretty sure that these people are very smart and intelligent. am i beginning to sound like Sen Joseph Biden? i am not. No i'm not done on this one yet, i was just warming up. Secondly, if there's a tremendous amount of population in the Philippines, that the church could control through lies,misinformation and even to the extent of intimidation for their own political reason, how much control could they possibly have over a large number of people advising them not to use birth control? Just a thought. Politicians have long been the subject of scrutiny by the church whenever they spoke of "birth control" or any other means to control birth except in a natural way. (I couldn't think of one). Why is that? Because in the Philippines, if you want to be in politics, you've got to have the blessings of the church or you won't even get notice at all. Doesn't that one sound so medieval? I think it's about time that congress have to pass a law on this matter. I seem to remember that the official Church line went something like "We dont have a population problem. We have a resource allocation problem" which could be true if you look around. Some 1% of the population (who couldnt care less about the other 99%) control 95% of the wealth and resources etc. etc. or something like that.
I guess with the "She must work 17 times harder" line, the Church has abandoned the allocation problem line in favor of the "Youre too friggin lazy" line? It's easy to say things especially when you're not in that person's shoes but I don't know if they can still say that if they are suffering the same thing. Many are suffering because of lack of government and community attention. Because of this, Philippines will always be a third world country.
 It's interesting that the church has convinced the government to go slow on contraceptives but not to do more to stop killing, election cheating, and stealing.
actually this is for everybody concern. Gonna start with the church & the shit politics in the phils., they are just good on this what they called sweet talking, after all 99% of them dont care at all. So, what's the relation of my statement above to Luz.. ? You can't solve a problem by creating another problem. After you gave birth to the 18th, stop it. Use contraceptives, got a lot of condoms out here dont listen to pulitikos or even the sweet talking of anyone, mas kilala mo sarili mo more than anyone else. It is you who can help yourself, Mr editor please say my message to Luz. Im willing to give a hand for you to start with.
Give please. There are sadistic scientists who hurry to hunt down errors instead of establishing the truth.
I am from Rwanda and learning to write in English, give true I wrote the following sentence: "This time motivation is proper to download the two cravings to be come simply, wellbutrin." Thank  Wellbutrin adult add.Hold that thought for a moment. Until such time when the people in the Philippines could possible make sense in the candidates they vote for, we will always be ranked as the most naive society in asia. Naive in a sense that, they don't even put the candidates under extreme scrutiny. They will instead chose a candidate that they see in movie theaters, stage shows, teen magazines and to some extent, some movie stars that they know of. Nothing wrong with that, they have the right to chose anyway. Right? think again. I bet you, that there is nothing whatsoever in the resume of those people that they will chose that has anything to do with running a public office. It would take possibly quite a few years from now(if we ever try)to have them "unlearn" the bad habits that our twisted, self-aggrandizing,self-serving and corrupted politicians of the past decades have taught them to be. However, there is always some room for improvement on this one. And quite understandably, perhaps, people of the press will somehow enlighten them as to what exactly is wrong with the Philippines that i so dearly love. We are all on this together folks! I don't really believed that we somehow have this "identity crisis", not just yet i guess. Just a thought.
I don't get it. Why can'T we Filipinos just shrug our shoulders and continue t take the pill anyway?
Hi Cathy, Actually many Filipinos do. But perhaps many more would if they weren't told it was a sin or if it was made available to people who can't afford commercial prices.
It's bad enough that many families can't afford the pill, as hao mentioned, but some women are also told that going on the pill can give them cancer. Or that condoms have microscopic holes in them that can still let sperm through. That's what some clergy have been telling women in Africa who are married to men with AIDS. The amount of misinformation out there is appalling.
There are foreign government and not for profit organizations involved in the Philippines by donating free condoms and other forms of contraceptives, but the Philippine government under pressure from the religious sector, most influential among them the Catholic Church, has effectively prevented these donations from being widely distributed through the government health centers. This a problem that has deep blotches of politics marked all over. The Catholic Church even discouraged the distribution of condoms in Africa, a continent with an explosion of the AIDS epidemic, where's the morality in that?
Excuse me. Our patience will achieve more than our force.
I am from Thailand and also now'm speaking English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Georgian daily, independent voice,georgia and caucasus politics, russian vehicle manufacturers including oao avtovaz and oao kamaz have scaled.The most authoritative news in canada featuring articles from the globe and mail, breaking news coverage, national news, maker avtovaz." Thank you very much . Marlie.Having as many children as you can is actually the mentality of agriculture-based societies - the more hands to help till the land, the better, right? The problem started when these rural folks migrated to the cities and brought with them the same mentality. As everyone knows, rural lifestyle is different from urban lifestyle, and the cost of living is just as different. Result: many children but no farm land to attend to.
China went through such a situation when Mao advocated the people to have many children so the country would be self-sufficient in food. But planners panicked when China's population reached a billion. Still Mao persisted. When the helmsman died and Deng took over, he changed the official state policy to "one child per family." In the course of implementation, it was found that traditions die hard. Knowing that they can only have one child (and the grandparents one grandchild per their own child), those who could started selecting the child's gender. Many female babies were killed because they prefer boys who could perpetuate the family line. But majority of the population had the same thoughts. They already had negative population growth (one child to replace two parents when the elders die), but what would happen when these boys grow up and find out (as many are finding out now) that there are not enough Chinese girls to marry? There is widespread fear that China will be populated with men who have never married, or need to go look for a wife from the overseas Chinese communities. We do not have to go through the Chinese experience. We only need to learn from it. Alec, how about those prophets of boom who say our overpopulation will be a boon when wealthier nations start running short of young working-age people?
Howie,
We are seeing it now – consider Japan’s situation with many approaching retirement age, and very few people to run industry. Their solution is either to export their factories (been doing that since as early as the 1970s), use robotics, and import manual labor (care givers, construction workers, entertainers – I suppose many use their hands and other bodily parts). There has been resistance in Japan to accept Filipino nurses, for some reason. China has been on the receiving end of Japanese (as well as American, European, Korean and Taiwanese) investments, with factories being established not only in the Shenzhen economic zone but also in Xiamen and areas outside Shanghai. Reason is the low cost of labor. In an early study, while the Philippine minimum wage rate was in the neighborhood of P200 daily, China’s was at the P35 daily level. They can afford the low rate because the Chinese government heavily subsidizes food products (it is still a controlled economy, after all). Expect the law of supply and demand to catch up with China – with the factories being constructed, and the declining number of young people to man them, they might end up importing workers. But then again, maybe not – despite the declining birth rate, they still have hundreds of millions of young people. But what is happening with our young working age population? How many of them get sufficient basic education? While many students are promoted to the next level, many do not deserve to be promoted. Facility in the English language is declining (some might say this is not important, until you realize that most of the college-level textbooks are still in English), reading and comprehension rates are very low (some put many college level students at grade 5 level in this regard), and very poor in math and sciences. In a study I ran into recently, even rate of comprehension in the Filipino language is lower than 75%! Apparently, this is not an exclusively Filipino phenomenon (see http://chronicle.com/temp/reprint.php?%20id=0438cbj21hv3l28wg9j592kh45vr2553) With high population growth, possibly increasing, and declining literacy rate (which ought to be more than ability to legibly write one’s name, or recognize individual letters of the alphabet; it should include understanding of what has been read. Just think about ability to read out loud Rizal’s Mi Ultimo Adios in Spanish, and not understand what it was all about), our youth will be consigned to manual labor, possibly exploited by foreigners and compatriots alike. BBC World has a running series called "The World Uncovered," and the first episode is supposed to be "Looking for China Girl." The blurb in their webpage says "The Chinese government reckons 40 million men will be permanent bachelors within 15 years, daughters are often unwanted. Many men are desperate and women are being kidnapped to be sold as brides." However, it was not shown in the Asia Pacific region last weekend, possibly in deference to China's sensibilities. Sayang. We could have learned from it.
Does anybody remember the Michael Palin sketch in the 1983 film 'Monty Python's Meaning of Life' where he, an econiomically hard-up Northern English factory laborer tells his numerous children that they have been sold to doctors wanting to perform medical experiments on them...complete with a song-and-dance number titled 'Every Sperm is Sacred?'
Indira Gandhi,during her emergency rule of 1976-77,embarked on a government-sponsored sterilization campaign among the Indian masses. That's right! And Sanjay Gandhi, Indira's other son (a politico, while Rajiv was an airline pilot during those days) even offered transistor radios for those who would undergo sterilization. I doubt that a transistor radio would be effective inducement these days. Anyone for an mp3 player?
I think it's great that this family is close and has plenty of love to give each other.
I think it's often unfair to blame the parents for "breeding like rabbits". The woman in this feature clearly doesn't want any more but doesn't know how to prevent pregnancy. And let's not even talk about abstinence, since it's a good idea in theory but almost impossible in practice. I think it's ridiculous that contraception remains inaccessible to poor Filipino families. It's one thing for the church to teach that it's immoral, it's another for politicians to hide behind the church rather than implementing policies for the benefit of its constituents. I think it's abhorrent that the government will not provide these families - and women, in particular - the assistance they need to support the children they don't know how to prevent themselves from having. You bet I'd blame the parents because they can control procreating. Their sole purpose in life as parents is to make sure that they can provide well for their children. Knowing that her husband is sick and her only source of income is that tricycle, they shouldn't be breeding like rabbits.
I think its delusion to think that they don't know how to prevent from getting pregnant. They are not that far out of civilization. Well hell, we all know how to prevent pregnancy...
1. Abstinence - I think it's delusional to think people will abstain. If most people could, we wouldn't even be having a discussion. People have sex lives. Get over it. 2. Contraception - How much does this cost? The government is obviously not subsidising the cost, since the mayor doesn't even believe in it. (And what's the bet he's using it?) Do you honestly think a woman with 17 kids and a sick husband is going to be able to afford decent, regular contraception? 3. Natural family planning - First of all, how many people actually know how to do this? I can bet you this woman has never been taught the technique, and even if she had been? It's only about 80% effective, if that. 4. Withdrawal - Even less effective, and I honestly can't see a man putting up with this on a regular basis. Besides, this is also against the teachings of a lot of Christian churches. Did I miss any others? I think you would be surprised to learn what people who are "not that far out of civilization" know or do not know about contraception. I really doubt that sex education is a strong point in Philippine schools. The discussion about birth control and contraception in the third world is not theoretical; it has to be real and practical. Otherwise, all we're doing is patronising those who are suffering as we foist on them self-righteous philosophies that make us feel better ("oh, surely they have a *choice*") but do nothing at all to help. Finally, a parent's role may be to provide well for their children but I can guarantee you that it's not our "sole purpose in life". We have private, personal lives, too. We have our own hopes and dreams and loves. How dare people take that away from women by taking away their choices. Hi Kat, I've heard it said many times that for the very poor in a poor country, having many children creates a sense of security as much as it does a burden. For in their old age, who else will take care of poor parents? In Australia and other wealthy countries, they can count on government support. In the Philippines, it's just family. So a poor mom may know theoretically how to prevent pregnancy, but the question is does she really want to?
Carmi may have a point though -- having children to support you in your old age is one thing, but 17 and going for an 18th?! This mother will be lucky to reach old age. Well, the article quotes her as saying that she wants to stop getting pregnant, but it's clear there's no support to help her help herself. Even the rhetoric she hears discourages her from attempting to help herself (because it's immoral or illegal, for example).
The solution for impoverished people isn't to tell them to go and help themselves. If they could do that, they wouldn't be in the position that they're in. They're too busy trying to survive to make an appointment to, say, the family planning clinic. Care and support should be brought TO them because clearly, it's not accessible to them any other way. And if people spent less time harassing them about being immoral (for having too many kids, for having sex, for not using contraception, for not working hard enough) and more time actually helping them find a solution, everyone would be better off. Kat, you're right about that. Blaming the poor for their own problems is a cop-out, and a way for others to turn a blind eye without feeling guilty about it.
Gabby, hey that's a good one about withdrawal. Re Bushy, what a different world it would be if Gore wasn't cheated out of the presidency. wasss up homie, howie rather. no matter how stupid a person is, we always have something good within us, not unless
luz is mental..... come on dude, what do you mean she doesn't know how her own body works? No matter who we are in life, there's always a miracle, that is if we want it and if you dont rely on politics and religion.......... get a life fellows Withdrawal is something that George Bush Sr. should have done in the late 1940s.....otherwise commence withdrawal in Iraq.
Its called 'responsible parenting'. Bringing another child into this world knowing that the child is going to live in poverty is just irresponsible.
Our government hasn't helped anyone, yesterday-today-or even tomorrow. Its up to parents to be responsible and make sure that they have the means and resources to provide for their kids. Or stop breeding. 'Nuff said. Kat and Carmi, parents and government BOTH have to be responsible. If government is not willing to help its citizens live better lives, let's abolish it! And if parents can't be responsible, their kids will blame them later on. But just as some adults need help managing their finances or need to be taught to learn to drive, they should also have access to information and means to take control of their reproductive systems. Responsibility must also be taught.
As it stands, the government or even the church refuse to help. So what now? It is now up to the parents to get that information and that's called being responsible for yourself and for your kids-present and future.
Yeah right, I agree with Carmi here. Let's not put the blame to anybody else. I, myself is also a parent. And I see to it that i feed my kid right and enough for his need. I too, married at an early age,,, age most parents expect their daughters would marry. I didnt know much about contraceptives (the very reason i got pregnant with my boyfriend, now my husband), much less with raising an ideal family. But seeing the plights of a large family which is elswhere, I get to learn, just by seeing them, that it is "MY" responsibility to look after my kid and my future kids' future. I wont wait for the governemnet nor the church to provide me with what i am ought to provide my kids... After all, I am responsible for all my actions, If I opt to have a dozen kids, then its my choice...
Yep, I agree. Responsibility must be taught and information needs to be accessible. No doubt the woman in this piece is trying to be as responsible as she can (and knows how to be) by working damn hard to keep her family fed and clothed.
Way to go Hao! I like the tone of that one, i couldn't agree with you more. Absolutely, the question of, who really should be held accountable to the population explosion we're experiencing in the Philippines. Does the government have to do something about it? Yes, of course. I think it has to start with the women who is obviously the one who has control of the situation. This is precisely the reverse intention of a landmark decision by the US Supreme Court on Roe vs Wade, which gives women in the US the right to terminate pregnancies in its early stage if the safety and health of the woman is in danger. However, in the Philippines, this is not gonna happen now or in the near future, why is that? you may asked. Because, for the simple reason that in the Philippines, the church and government are having the same opinion on not choosing to educate women on birth control. And it's been going on since time immemorial. But, does women have the right to choose to have as much kids that they could possibly want, sure, of course, however, it should be within "reason". I think responsibility to your action takes precedence over and above your right to pro create. Government and those people on the pulpit have already recognized this as a potential contentious issue, and yet, they are still trying to avoid the question of who really is responsible. We people on the outside looking in to this scenario could only shake our heads and say "too bad", they don't want to do something about it! so be it!. Better yet, have a concise accounting of those people with too many kids in the family that have embraced the church teachings of the-more-the-merrier approached and let the church allocate funds for them. And for those of us watching this terrible population explosion getting out of hand in the Philippines, WE have to do something about it now while WE can before it gets too late. First off on my list; let's get rid of those octogenarians in the political arena and replaced them with people who have graduated from a well established institutions. Someone who have master's degree in economics, physics, sociology and whatever "logy" there is in education. To top it off, singers, actors, jugglers, and all of the above need not apply. Need i say more. If i want some clowns to entertain me, i will hire one. Just a thought.
Please don't blame Luz for being lazy, malandi or just being of no education for family planning. Even if she wanted to STOP. She just can't STOP. Nobody can just STOP being in Luz's shoes. You know why?
It is because SEX is the best thing that happens after sundown! For poor people it's the best cigarette and sedative. Cigarette for relaxiation while sedative to forget all the worries of her life. Remember why she married at 13? Why? Some people who commented the story just slapped the word "breeding like rabbits" etc. Do you know how hard it is to be pregnant and to deliver a baby? If you know then just shut your mouth because it's just as easy as pooping. The only thing decent we can do is help her is to give her a job that would give her children a decent meal. And the only thing we can do right now is to quote Atienza saying "She just have to work 17 times harder" after stating the premise of Luz story. Atienza want to become a senator, I think you know the reason why he must not get it. If you reread my posts Zaldy, you'd see that I didn't use the words malandi, lazy or no education. I used the word irresponsible.
And the term 'breeding like rabbits' is apropos because she has 17 kids with #18 on the way. I did know how hard it is to be pregnant and to give birth. I have a 10 year old and even if I can and want to have another child, I chose not to because I don't think my finances can afford it. Don't tell me to shut up because last time I checked I also have the right to sound off, just as you did here. If Mr. Zaldy Baguinon can afford to give job to aling Luz, then go for it...I salute you for that..To quote Mr. Baguinon,"The only thing decent we can do is help her is to give her a job that would give her children a decent meal". Then please give her a decent job as well.
I understand that this is an emotional topic with widely divergent opinions. But let's restrain ourselves from trying to sllence others, and just express our points of view.
If only our leaders stopped thinking about politics for a moment and got as interested as the commenters here in issues related to families and reproduction perhaps we'd have common-sense policies agreeable to most. Thanks to all for keeping the conversation going. Sex is the best thing that happens after sundown? Whooaa! Is that a fact? I hate to disagree on this one, for a moment there i thought i was living in the 50's where noting else matters except the opinion of the husband to his wife. This is also one of the greatest problems we're having when it comes to the question of responsibilities.
the man comes home drunk one night, get in bed, realizing that there was someone in bed with him (which of course is his wife) and decided to hump her without even thinking for a second that she just gave birth a few months ago to his new son and or daughter. A week after, his wife found out that she was pregnant again. Since, there was no one else to turn to for help, not even a family doctor would certainly give her advice that she must abort the child. It is against the law and shouldn't be performed by any means, the doctor said. Well, let's get back to the poor, soon to be forgotten and almost hysterical woman who is now pregnant. Do you honestly believed that her husband would do anything to help her solve her problem? Well, i hate to disappoint you on this one again, but, the answer to that question will surely be "NO". And i'm willing to let you cut my d,,,,ck and put it in the blender if you must, if you could even think for a moment that her husband actually gives a damned about it. Now, this is a very typical scenario where ignorance on the part of the woman and stupidity and lack of total concern to the welfare of the woman is involved. It's not as if we're talking about family violence here, whenever the man hits his spouse, and the spouse doesn't hit back, she felt "hopeless", but whenever the woman hits her spouse, and the spouse doesn't respond to the injury, he is showing "RESPECT" toward the woman. And this my friend, was just a simple example why men in general in the Philippines doesn't care much, wouldn't care less of the hardship that women endure of having kids that they simply couldn't afford to have. To cut a long story short, responsibility and choice begins in the family. Maybe, if men in general (not just in the Phils) would think twice before doing anything in a very irresponsible manner on what's gonna happen after. Then, maybe, i say, maybe, we could at least minimize the too crowded population that we're experiencing right now. You can ask or maybe get a poll conducted on this matter, and ask men around in Manila if they really care about their spouses having kids just about every year, and if, they are really concern about their spouse's health. The answer to these questions would be a resounding "NO"!. Sure! sex is the best thing to have after sundown, i couldn't agree with you more on this, for me, not just after dawn, but also, in the morning! afternoon! nighttime! midnight before going to bed and of course, don't forget the "morning glory!.However, there is a catch in all of these wham-bam-boom that you said you like. You have got to think about the welfare and health of your partner and not just your pecker. More "Glory" to you brother. Just a thought. Hey Zaldy, i just would like to have a few words on you. May i remind you that we're only trying to get some facts straighten out and as much as possible talk about it in a most "civilized" manner. I'm sure that you probably have some education higher than grade school. But somehow could have missed some points that the other person was saying. Also, a reminder that this is not a chat room where you can say inappropriate things to people. Like the saying goes,,"you can't stand the heat in the kitchen, just get out of it". Don't get me wrong though, me and the rest of the gang here welcomes you with open arms, a hug and quite possibly a kiss too. You owe Karmi an apology, and we would like you you to print it here. Or forever be banished from the rest of the readers including hao. Nothing personal, just a thought.
what if d man with 17 kids (18th on its way!)
lets recall d men from d bible stories, how many kids dey got? bottom line is, its a matter of survival to d fittest! d government? d church? CMON! dey only need u/want u during election time/keep d christian faith! dats reality people! dats life! Survival of the fittest? Is that what your faith can best come up with? I am a faith ful too and my faith teaches justice and compassion. Survival of the fittest most primitive economic and social order. I hope you try to learn some sense, even if it should come from the mold of your religion.
thanx troy!, goodness me, u sound so egghead when it comes to deism! thats reality again!
Ms.Gem, for someone who knows how to throw words like deism, I'm hoping that you understand that reality is not one dimensional. What may be real to you, can be my fantasy world.
If you live in the survival of the fittest realm, I'm really sad for you. In my world there is reason and hope. The most eggheaded people I know are those who proclaim to keep the christian faith in the light of the topic but come short of substance in explaining their position. If you think people should live like the heroes of the biblle like King Solomon, aside from having many children, he had plenty of wives too. Yes polygamy was allowed in old jewish traditions. Should we allow that too? amen troy! i like that! U BLOODY MEN,,,
Question:
I have a sister-in-law that at the age of 22 had already 3 children all delivered via cesarean section and then PGH physicians advised her to undergo tubal ligation, which she did undergo that procedure. How come Luz, got married at the age of 13 and now having 17 (going 18) children at the age of 42 was not advised by any hospitals to undergo tubal ligation knowing the risks and complications of having a baby at the age of 42. May, Luz probably gives birth at home, attended to by a hilot. Many Filipinos don't bother going to hospitals, thinking they will need lots of money. And they're right, especially if they end up having C-sections.
I think, at the end of the day, it all boils down to RESPONSIBILITY. While I respect the concept of PRO-LIFE and all that, I am also more PRO-CHOICE. Let us face it, lately the government and the Church (or the people behind it) are not one's sure bets as to what is right, what should or should not be. I am a Catholic, and I stand by the faith, but not the institution. The government and the Church's self-righteous attitude has been one of the major driving factors in making the general public gullible to a certain extent.
So what if they say 'do not do this', or 'contraceptives are a no-no'? It's the individual's body, it's their life, therefore it is their choice that should prevail. On the one hand, though, I have to hand it over to Aling Luz for still trying her best to raise her 17 (+ 1 coming soon) children. Nothing irks me more than seeing people churning off spawns and not lifting a finger to try to at least feed them. From personal experience, I hate when people do not care about their children (nor even give those lives a chance to see the light of day) when there are others (like my mom) who want to have more kids but could not. Have you ever watched the IDIOCRACY movie of Luke Wilson? When people in the future grew dummer instead of growing more intelligent? I think this is a nice example, that if we dont LEARN how to control having much children than we can support, the world will really be dummer. instead of going to school, they'll prefer to work and feed thier starved stomach! Imagine, kung lahat na lamang ng kabataan ay magtatrabaho at hindi na mag-aaral? Tama si Jose Rizal, ang ating mga kabataan ang pag-asa ng bayan, pero paano pa kung kumakalam ang kanilang sikmura? We can "go forth and multiply" without having more kids than we can support. We can go forth and multiply good deeds and gospels of the Lord, teach our children with values and education, give them proper care and attention. Hindi yung gumawa ng maraming anak, dahil sa totoo lang, ang mga anak din natin ang nahihirapan kung hindi natin maibibigay ang kanilang pangangailangan. Buti sana kung maibibigay ng mga pulitikong yan ang dapat sanay tulong nila sa masa.
Her situation is a sad reality that many of our countrymen (and countrywomen) face today. The lack of 'available' methods of contraception coupled with the fact that sex is one of the last pleasures they can enjoy for free ("Ito na nga lang ang libre"), it is no wonder that many poorer Filipinos have such large families.
Family planning is a very real problem, especially in our overpopulated metropolis. I think the way that the Church and the government handled the situation is just deplorable. The Church apparently thinks that it's still in the colonial era when large families were sought after and could be supported by a day's work in the bukid. Unfortunately, such a view cannot survive in our age where the only way to feed your family is to get employment and then buy your food from SM. The government should also be more practical in handling this situation. There are already more people than our government could provide for and this leads to a host of social problems that we can see everyday while driving in Manila. Besides, whatever happened to separation of Church and state? Don't these politicians have the balls to face the Church and tell them that such policies are needed? It's just so sad. I admire how the obgyn/midwife works here in the US. After having two kids they start talking to me about contraception, they educate me and find a suitable method. Now that's what we call responsible parenthood. I hope the government implement on every doctor or midwives to educate their patients since they are the one delivers the baby anyway. It is easier for them to look at the record of every patients and see how many children they already have and suggest the appropriate method for the new mothers.
To Howie Severino: Please inform Luz that there is a contraceptive pill available in the market for Php25 only. It's called Lady Pill. It is good for 28 days so I guess Php25 which is good for a month won't hurt her that much if she'll just try to think about what it would or would not do to her.
Tubal ligation is also available in some health centers for free.
The problem with other people is they are not in that situation, ... cant blame other Filipinos to have a big family because of our culture. Rhythm Method? Can you easily teach them how to count for safe and unsafe days if they are sooo busy working very very hard? I still believe in "Responsible Parenthood" meaning that government or health care provider should educate people options on family planning for a better and brighter future ahead. Which is more evil? Having so many children and cant give them bright future or using condoms and pills? Work 17 time harder??? Even professionals who finished college or even masteral degree holders are having hard time coping with our economic crisis (which our government denies), what more of people like Luz? The church and our government should address this growing population with an open mind and not just tell people like Luz to do her part. What about them? Yeah ryt Ms. Sheena, and contraceptive pills are available for free in the health centers. And it wont take you so much to be that fully educated, konting explaination lang in "Tagalog" regarding its use would save her from conception of her 19th child. Contraception is just a piece of cake.
Wow! I never thought I'll be famous here!
By the way, I never responded directly to any of you. I just chose "In reply to [Top Level], and I think I have just summarized all the comments posted. Sorry Carmi, I didn't even intend to know who said that "breeding like rabbits" line because I think some of the readers also think what you said. The very first line you said in the posts was: "Why do they keep breeding like rabbits knowing they are not capable of feeding their kids?" I think you are implying they do that on purpose. That's unfair to Luz. I never stated that Carmi said the word 'malandi'. I just assumed someone would think of it while reading our posts!  Let's get through with that. Should we? Someone liked the idea of giving a decent job for Luz. Maybe some of us here would like to help because I don't have something to offer. Or maybe I just thought of that 'cause I'm wanting a decent job too. Coincidence, isn't it? As for now, these politicos will be using somebody like Luz again to play hero in their campaign. Can someone make them accountable for that? I mean, can someone monitor the promises they made and they will make UNDER OATH and file in case in case of perjury? Hehehe! just a thought. I'm pretty sure that the lady in question here was not the only one in the Philippines with an overgrown family. Anybody who wants to help her would be doing a disservice to all those family in a situation like her.Perhaps, the government may somehow concentrate on helping the women population in the Philippines by extending their arm to them and help them get educated in the proper maintenance of family (i.e. birth control). Her case was the only one put to light with the help of the media. First things first, educators in the Philippines (i mean, experts in the field of economics, social psychology and sociology) should go hand in hand to convince those people in the lawmaking body (congress) to enact a law to change some draconian laws that we've had in the last few centuries concerning family orientation. We've got to adjust to the changes of the times, and not the time itself to adjust to our changes. Only by then, that society as a whole would make life here on this universe a lot more enjoyable and worth living at. As for the woman in question, the only things i could think of is to tell her that help is on the way, as soon as people in politics would have the courage to address this pitiful issue in the legislative branch of the government. However, at this point and time, we could just kid ourselves thinking that everything is gonna be alright no matter what cause "we are all on this thing together". Every little act of compassion is always within reach to us, because, we are pilipinos through and through. And to those people we elected in office that we thought would bring changes to society but never did, they will get change, but not the the will and ferocity of the pilipino to survive against all odds. Just a thought.
By the way, before i forget, thanks zaldy for apologizing, maybe all of us here could get together for lunch sometime with hao. Implement the 2 child per family policy. After 2 children it is a choice between sterilization or heavy imposition of fines, tax penalties, etc
These Catholics priests wantED ONLY to encourage irresponsible parenting so that in the long run, kids will end up in orphanages built by themselves...now, that's the start of ....blaming the govERNMent, worst ....blaming GOD, why they're poor ,etc.etc.etc..... KATANGI-TANGING KATANGAHAN!!!! ....So how can u help people in poverty even the people which might be help with them... konsentidor umero uno....BWISIT !!!!
what can i say... the girl on this article she's not thinking tsk tsk tsk... i dont now what's on her head... is she crazy...
alam na nga nyang mahirap ang buhay sa pinas nagaanak pa xa ng ganun kadami... hindi ba nya iniisip magiging future ng mga magiging anak nya.. hirap kasi sating mga pinoy sometimes were not thinking ok the nest thing taht will happend on our action.. it sounds weird but thats true... : ) it's her choice kung bakit ganyan kadami ang kanyang anak. The only thing that she can do right now is to work even harder to raise her children.
Here we go again, blaming government and the church for being indifferent to the “helpless” poor. If this woman with 17 kids just “worked 17 times harder” to buy contraceptives for herself, she wouldn’t have such an extended brood occupying public space and using it as their abode.
It is ridiculous to even consider putting blame elsewhere other than to the parents: Government won’t give help and their reaction is to make more children? Have they not heard of abstaining? The thought of 17 kids to feed sure would be a good reason. And when does religion prove to be a hindrance if Filipinos want to do something? If she wants to use contraceptives, can the church really stop her? This woman was “unlucky” with her first two husbands, how? Unless those two ex-husbands died, she is now living unmarried with her third husband, which is against church doctrine. Did she stop and think of what the church would say? Stories that slant toward the poor being victims even if they are not will just make the poor more brazen in whatever foolishness they want to pursue. Society should not coddle their abusive behavior, and society along with government should hold them accountable for their acts. Media should not spin stories favoring the poor just because they are poor. No doubt that individuals should practice a keen sense of responsibility. I will go to the extent of saying, let the church continue in its ways, its their job to proselytize on this matter or even just follow the Vatican line.
The problem is that the government policy on contraception is to follow the church position. This is the same way that the state swayed in the issue of capital punishment. It is not healthy in a democracy that in elections the church has the power to influence elections and this power is used to pressure elected officials. It is particularly unhealthy that in a country where the population grows out ofpace with progress and economy, the state is pressured to adopt impractical measures to address the problem. If the state is able enough to create jobs in the pace that we are making babies, I will not be too worried about it. The state policy on contraceptives is not to promote it. Contraceptive distribution at our state run health centers are widely banned. Groups that donate free contraceptives to the government to distribute at our health centers have stopped their efforts because it proved useless. I think this anomaly puts our government in the middle of this problem. the story i believed was about the plight of this woman having seventeen kids too many. The media decided to put it on the paper for others to know concerning her situation. And consequently, people would give some analytical views on the problems women in the Philippines are facing. I don't really think that the media would sent out stories like this one just to, as you said in your comment "the media should not spin stories favoring the poor just because they are poor".
From my point of view, i think none of us here are really actually favoring anyone, even the poor for that matter, but, rather delved on the issue about why it is so. What happens when women in the Philippines doesn't get much help getting some education and or information concerning their health and welfare. Shouldn't it be one of the responsibilities of government? To make sure that their inhabitants will always be in good health? If all us here who have heard stories like this woman and tell ourselves that she is the most irresponsible woman on the face of the earth cause she decided to have that much kids in her life, aren't we putting "tag" on her for doing so? If that's gonna be the case, then let's all go out there, find those bastards and castrate them in public! Sometimes when people have been subjected to centuries of misinformed religion, it would take quite a few years to have them "unlearn" those things that the church taught them. And, unfortunately, this is one of them. Just like i said in my previous comment, we have got to change the law concerning the right of women how they want to manage their own reproductive system. Let's all give the media a round of applause please for bringing this problem to light for all of us to see. Again, let me be the one to assure you that the media is not in any way favor this people, they are actually doing a good service to us by asking those people looking in like you and me, what can we do about it? Is there any chance at all that perhaps we can solve this problem? When you get the answer please give me a shout and i will certainly listen. Just a thought. Let's not be hypocrite...shall we? And stop pointing fingers to whoever fault it is. I beleive that using contraceptives is not a sin as long as it's use by couples within the boundary of marriage. Let's stop condemning this woman who had 17 kids for being irresponsible. We don't know what she had gone through and we obviously don't have the slightest feelings or idea what it's like to be her. So stop pretending as if you know what she's going through. One thing I know for sure is that she's "struggling" and she doesn't need our blame nor our condemnation. She needs our prayer and help instead. If you have carefully read what Howie Severino have written then you will, somehow, get a glimpse how she turned out to be what she is now. Although she's, partly guilty on how her life turned out to be like that, that doesn't give us any right to judge her. Let's stop being self-righteous and be sensitive that these things do happen in real life and these people need our help.
Anonymous, my great grandmother too had 12 children and was able to send all of them to good schools while relying on her ricefields, but the dynamics of economy had changed a great deal since her time. For a few years in the 40's and 50's the Philippines had been the most promising economy in Asia. The dollar was equivalent to two pesos.
Times had changed since that time, due in part to the almost consistent 2.4% annual growth in the population. The pressures of this is pounding down on the middle and lower class. The average family income in the Philippines in 2003 is P148,000. The average family size is 5, thats 3 children. Thats an income of P12,333 per month for a family of 5. No wonder the Indian 5-6 business is booming. In this equation, where do you think a family with 6 children would fall. If you try to go to Japan and interview our HEROES in that country that are working in the entertainment sector most of them will tell you that they are there to take advantage of the opportunity for a better income, and swallow the morality issues married with the job, to help their huge families. I think the most practical policy that the country can adopt to curb a 2.4% population growth is promoting contraception. It is a set policy no longer discussed in all of the developed world, even in Italy where the Pope himself holds office. For politicians that support the Church position on contraceptives, I have a very good memory of when GMA started to follow the Church in lock step. Thats when her popularity ratings started to go south. It is sad to say that the only solution to family planning is artificial contraceptive. I came from a big family of 6 children and somehow we have been happy being together. Mind you, my parents are simple vendors in the market but all of us were able to finish schooling. What is alarming is not the actual use of contraception but the mentality that in order to be responsible, you have to use artificial contraception.
Responsibility for family planning does not rely on the church nor at the state. This is what I have learned from my parents. You cannot blame them for the irresponsibility of parents. To abstain is actually the foolproof way for an effective family planning and all it takes is discipline. We have to say no to the cravings for the flesh merely for pleasure's sake. I know its kinda easier said than done, but look at the results in a society that has lost its sense of integrity, which answers yes to every call of the senses. If ever, the church or Mayor Atienza is saying No to contraception its because there is a good reason for it. Di ba nakakabilib na ang isang institution ay matinding naninindigan sa bagay na ito gayung alam nila na puro batikos ang kanilang makukuha. I also believe that the church and the state offers help to these people but they dont need to proclaim it to everyone. We can too can help them and we dont have to be a part of any organization. I think more than changing the teaching of the church, we should change our mindset first. Btw, just a thought, if you asked this mother, kung gusto niya wala na lang yung last,say, 10 kids niya, ano kaya sagot niya. At kung ikaw ang nasa pang17 na anak, ano kaya ang mararamdaman mo na sinasabi ng iba na sana tumigil ang nanay mo sa pangsampu... Anonymous, that's thought-provoking. But no one is saying artificial contraceptives are the only solution. The proposal is that it should be available in case the other methods, like abstinence or natural, don't work.
King Gurion, your message will be heard. Luz is doing her best, but she hardly went to school so she probably doesn't understand how her own body works. Its nice to know that you dont think artificial contraception is the only solution because it isnt. As media people, a lot is really on your shoulders because you are seen and heard more. Im hat's off to responsible media persons who give equal exposures to all sides of the issues. I guess, with this issue, the media persons and those responsible for the education, which can be all of us, should give also ample weight to the right family planning.
We can underestimate the power and intellect of the poor but material poverty is not necessarily equal to intellectual poverty. They do understand things related to the source of life, maybe even more than we give them credit for. I truly believe that an upright life is the start of everything. Control of passions, loving the right way, valuing hard work, responsibility in every aspect...these are the core/essential of what makes man truly a man. If these will be ingrained in every one-since it can be understood by both the poor and the rich- then the real problem of povety (and not overpopulation) can be reduced. Anonymous, my great grandmother too had 12 children and was able to send all of them to good schools while relying on her ricefields, but the dynamics of economy had changed a great deal since her time. For a few years in the 40's and 50's the Philippines had been the most promising economy in Asia. The dollar was equivalent to two pesos.
Times had changed since that time, due in part to the almost consistent 2.4% annual growth in the population. The pressures of this is pounding down on the middle and lower class. The average family income in the Philippines in 2003 is P148,000. The average family size is 5, thats 3 children. Thats an income of P12,333 per month for a family of 5. No wonder the Indian 5-6 business is booming. In this equation, where do you think a family with 6 children would fall. If you try to go to Japan and interview our HEROES in that country that are working in the entertainment sector most of them will tell you that they are there to take advantage of the opportunity for a better income, and swallow the morality issues married with the job, to help their huge families. I think the most practical policy that the country can adopt to curb a 2.4% population growth is promoting contraception. It is a set policy no longer discussed in all of the developed world, even in Italy where the Pope himself holds office. For politicians that support the Church position on contraceptives, I have a very good memory of when GMA started to follow the Church in lock step. Thats when her popularity ratings started to go south. you're right that the dynamics of economics has changed but not of humanities. man, in his essential being, is still the same today as it was from the very beginning. needless to say, the population should not be controlled by the dynamics of economics but it is man that should be on top of the economy. Deep down within you, you want what is ideal for the country but let us search more and we will realize that problems have solutions that does not go against the nature of men. the story of your grandparents can still be repeated today, it just takes, well, people like your grandparents-tough, sacrificing, responsible.
there is so much to learn from people, from each other. the solution is not is not the mentality of cutting down the number of people but in logistics of the resources. just think, if our ancestors have the mentality that we have today-of population control, of 2 children only- many of us will not be here today. You present a purely philisopical point in raising the nature of humanity. The problem with pure philisophy is that there are so many schools of it. I will counter that the nature of man is not anchored on sexuality and the desire to have big families. I will propose that humanity, in his quest to raise a family, wishes for his kids to be healthy, secure, well provided, well educated, comfortable, well loved, well attended and whatever else good that a human beings emotions are capable of.
If the average income in the country is P12,333 a month, we cannot wish it upon ourselves or on our neighbors to have big families. Let me finish my story about my great grandmothers family. She had 12 children and her children had plenty of children too, average of six each. My dad is one of four chilren, they are a smaller family, but in my dads generation of 72 first cousins, about 12 were successful, most of the rest relied on inheritance. From my great grandmothers land ownings most probably has six hectares each. Now in my generation, amongst us second cousins, there are a lot who we can call poor. They come from families of uncles and aunts that did not believe in a small family. There is a term used for this, i'ts called Trickle Down Economics or TDE. Now there are a lot of poor people in our nation, I suspect na marami sa kanila na-TDE rin. These are reasons that make me favor a pragmatic sense rather than a purely philosopical one. Finally you argued that if our ancestors had population control in mind, a lot of us will not even be here today. For me it's simple, if I am not here today because I was never born, then how can I care? Hey, I guess sometimes I can be a little philosopical too. Happy Threads, Man Ay mali, bakit ba naging philisopical. Philosophical po.... dyahe.
Correction uli, Trickle Down Economics is a put down term for Supply Side Economics also known as Reaganomics. Totally not consistent with my great-grandmother analogy.
Greeting. Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
I am from Mali and learning to write in English, tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "In some ways, the internet provides safety, relative anonymity and a global reach that creates a huge number of new possibilities." Thanks for the help :(, Kina. sorry for sounding philosophical but that was not my intention. nevertheless, i also believe that what you think is philosophical should not be relegated to philosophy. thoughts should always be accompanied by actions. i may sound idealistic in wanting a world that does not require artificial contraception but i'd like to believe that all things are possible, if we put our minds and wills into it. i have also witnessed so many families who have practiced self discipline and control in their family planning and they have been successful. im awed all the more since these are people living in malibay, pasay who are not actually well off.
you say that your great grandparents, aunts and uncles have espoused large families and thus found life difficult. but i can also sensed that in the midst of all these poverty, there is a thread of happiness that binds people. and although im not for contraception (which by the way are actually, abortifacient), im not also encouraging reckless child spawning. the obstacles that the poor are not educated, they have nothing better to do than engaged in sex, that they cannot control themselves are obstacles that are surmountable. if all of us will talk with one person starting today about responsible parenthood and the right family planning, we will be part of the solution. and this will have a multiplier effect in the long run. and by the way, products of illicit affairs also add to the so-called "population problem" but fingers are not pointed to them. sometimes, we can make escape goats of the poor because they cannot defend themselves. let us also educate ourselves and practice the human values that we have been taught. of course, these are all easier said than done. let's not raise our eyebrows but struggle to do them and we will end up happier, not just in this life but later. on the issue of economics, there is less for some because there are more for the others. its a matter of distribution. but a tipping point will also be reached at some point. in the global scale, i think God is also keeping a balance. We are His answer to the other countries' lack of people. on the last part, i agree and i have considered that also but my point was that we have to be grateful that WE ARE HERE. A single person is worth more than all the material world combined. i may sound moralistic but take that not as preaching but challenging... a commission of six non-theologians was appointed by pope john xxiii to advise him on the issue of artificial contraception. pope john xxiii is widely accepted as a moderately conservative pope by religious definition of conservatism. vatican ii from which major church reforms was adopted was convened under his prodding.
he died too soon and did not see the council into its conclusion. he also did not survive long enough to see that his commission of non- theologians was extended to 72 individuals that include 7 cardinals, 9 bishops, 16 theologians, 13 physicians and 5 women by his successor pope paul vi, largely regarded as indecisive. in his humanae vitae pope paul vi overruled the report of the commission of 72 which stated that artificial birth control is not intrinsically evil. this due to the dissent of out of the 72, 2 bishops, 4 theologians and one cardinal who also happens to be the papal theologian, who made the stand that the church not only should not but could not change its teaching. that is the basis of the term abortifacient still being used to define artificial contraception today. if pope john xxiii had lived longer, we might be looking at a different church line. you are right in your view that there is a crisis in the distribution of wealth in our country. but by all economic measurements our country is also undoubtably poor. if you distribute all the wealth in our country equally we will still all end up as poor individuals. if the wealthy nations in the world start to need people, we better pray harder than the indians and the chinese. not only do they beat us in numbers by 12 is to 1, they also have the upper hand in diplomatic, economic and political influence in the world market place. they are also perceived as just as smart as filipinos (a little yabang). it is also bad state policy to rely on overseas workers. nations have immigration policies that are not as etched as papal encyclicals. if we presume, that the conflict in the middle east today, boils into saudi arabia, and our beloved hero kababayans in that state are forced to go home, our country will be thrown into economic chaos. the state should not adopt impractical church based initiatives because it favors only the faith of one church in a nation in which there are many. then forgive me but i need to mention, i don’t mind preachiness, specially because you are a faithful and preachiness is embedded in narrations of faith, but to preach that we are making escape goats of the poor to gain a moral upper hand is a little off course. i believe i have maintained my scholar objectivity in these exchanges. my examples of the relationship of large families and poverty, are there only because it is essential the population versus economy narratives, if anything it is to support the comprehension of their plight and not to malign them. then again if i am not here because i was not born to begin with, its impossible for me to be grateful. happy threads Average income 2006 - P21000
Ay mali, bakit ba naging philisopical. Philosophical po... dyahe.
I don't know what you have been smoking, but, whatever it is, let me have some buddy! What's the point. I have a tremendous feeling that you may have read this passages on a "fish wrapper". Please, no offense. Just a thought.
what passage exactly are you referring to? perhaps if you read the whole exchange you wouldn't be lost.
i thought you are going to give a commentary on some passage i halucinated upon when i read it from fish paper? its a free blog, youre' more than welcome to weigh in.
I guess there wouldn't be any sense of me saying anything at all if you said it your self that you mainly based your thoughts on "hallucination". In your dream brother. Just a thought.
thats a lame cop out brother. your twisting my challenge as an admission of self induced deam.
so here, i stand by everything i have written. whatever passage you may think i read from fish paper, i can make a case for. so go for it, brother, put your opposition forward and i'll rebut. what happened to you alundio aguilar? for someone so chatty as you to be unussually absent 27 hours after i issue you a challenge seems to be strange. na-virus ka ba o na-worm kaya? baka nasunog ang hard drive mo? wag naman sana.
baka tinamaan ka lang ng "untimely" writer's block? i'll leave you alone, if you want call my raise, it's an open challenge. i'll still check on you from time to time. oh, just to remind you the challenge. you can pick on whatever point i raised on this post and give your earnest opposition to it. pick on an idea, you'll just disapoint me if you come back to point out an inaccurate statistic or something trivial. let's make it interesting. after this exercise we will be able to tell who really reads from 'pambalot ng tinapa'. enjoy your weekend, you don't know how i'm enjoying mine, brother. Hello there! why? did you miss me already? i just kind of got busy for a while buddy.Anyways, seems like you got some ants in your pants now huh? Its nice to know though that i may have irritated you a tad the last time. Well, you obviously have a lot of time in your hands to check on this blogs. I just don't have the time, and besides, you already have the advantage cause, where i come from, it is against the law to package food (including you know what) in newspapers/magazines for reasons that was very obvious. But i promised, that i will try everything within my power to check on this section from time to time. I'm getting envious already thinking that you people can get fully absolved in this even on work days. Kidding aside, let's talk about something else that has been bugging me for quite some time. Here's the topic that we could talk about. The last time i check on the news in Manila was that former governor leviste has check in at the hospital and not in jail. Should he be in jail by now? In spite of all the evidence against him? Let me know your feedback on this.
sounds like youv'e changed your tone mr. aguilar. it's totally out of your character. i now smell a nicely packaged retreat sweetened by an offer of java.
men are confined by rules when jousting. these rules define a man's character. like what i said, i'm not too hot on pursuing you engage in my challenge, like how men do. the insult you hurled onto me is hollow. an insult of whatever reason for, you couldn't even give. in my world it is enough that i put you to the test of a challenge. the one that you couldn't even call. that says a lot about you mr. aguilar. What the hell are you talking about? Challenge? on what? will you just speak plain english. Oh my, there's actually a lot of things you're saying here that i'm having a hard time understanding. And what insults are you referring to? was that one about "fish wrappers"? Well, if you get insulted about that comment, that means you're taking it too seriously buddy. Just like you said, you don't want to be hearing anything about "trivial things". Aren't those one's you talked about here about the people in the vatican who dressed like a "pooptha" trivial enough? People just don't want to hear anything about the vatican's organizational chart. I really don't think that they are interested at all. Consider yourself fortunate enough that i even commented something about you here. Perhaps, i was just too bored waiting for my dentist appointment. Challenge? you're a funny guy. Now, if just in case my plane to Puerto Rico will be delayed (i highly doubt it) I will make some more comments here. In the meantime, just sit your a,,ss nicely on that chair and wait for some of my "trivial" stuff. Take a deep breath and say to yourself "i'm gonna chill out". Just a thought.
What the hell are you talking about ,,,,,
Sorry i forgot to type my name on this one. i warned you about not even going into trivial things like an update to the the figures on percapita income in the philippines i'm giving out to support the ideas in putting forward.
you bore me aguilar. you can read about the trivia with the papal commission but fail to make the connection to the idea of why that trivia is there in the first place. you are right aguilar, you are linguistically challenged. inside you feel about yourself as big, but your'e like a balloon, you project yourself as big but inside your'e just full of hot air. if you really want to engage in debate, weigh in on the ideas, stop asking questions about trivia, or else when you eat that piece of porterhouse, forget the cabernet, this way you save some of your brain cells. "linguistically challenge"? Say what? where are you getting this? Just like i said in my previous blogs, i don't have the advantage like you of getting fish wraps each and everyday. It's against the law here where i come from to packaged any food in used newspapers and magazines let alone fresh fish. Who's boring now. I was not all surprised to hear you saying this. This is probably the last comment you'll hear from me though, bet you, if you could go down low enough to mate a rattlesnake, you probably will. Ho hum. Scotty! one to beam up!. Bye bye Bubba. Just a thought. P.S. cabernet doesn't go with red meat that good. I will puke if i try doing that, like right now. Typical of a regular "pinoy", they get bent out of shape when their ego get depleted. Must have been true indeed. (about the "W-R-A-P-S"). ha ha ha. Next time, here it is, talk to my hand.
you sound like you are ranting in your usual bad english aguilar. lost your cool? you know there's a rule in debate, the first to lose his cool is a LOSER.
is the english too complicated for you to decipher? tell me if thats so, i'll tell my eight grader son to write for me, this way i can present my ideas in your reading level. you just emphasized your lack of wits and lack of style in that last one. by the way, you probably haven't tried pairing a 120 dollar cabernet sauvignon to your forty dollar porterhouse in morton's. house wine anyone? I'M PROUD TO BE JUST A REGULAR PINOY!!! Hi Troy and Alundio, Thanks for the interesting and intense exchange. But let's keep the dialog focused on the issues. No personal attacks. Salamuch!
Howie, sorry about that, i promised it won't happened again. I just got carried away there for a while. Nice to know that "we're being watch here". Again, please take my deepest apology. Just a thought. I'm just gonna close this lap tap for a while and give it a rest. Just so you know, GMA is my favorite site and whenever i go looking for it, i make sure that i glanced once in while at your blog corner. My fault, have a good day.
my apologies to you mr. severino
If Leviste stayed in jail, he might be dead. Or that's what the televised hosp. photos from his family seem to say.
You're absolutely right about that, Needless to say, Leviste would still have a lot of enemies doing time in jail. I think that would be highly unfortunate if he ever spend time even for a short one in jail. But, you'll never know, he could perhaps build a building for himself in muntinlupa just like what "THE mafia boss" did in jercy. The marcose's are still around to back him up. What i cannot comprehend up to this point was that, every time some well known and not so well known politician hit the fan by doing torts and damages to other people, they always manage to spend time in the hospital for the first few months just to avoid, maybe, the eyes of the media. I really don't know about this, but, correct me if i'm wrong Howie.
Not only that, it was really a shame to those ordinary people in jail who cannot even get a glimpse of their relatives for years while incarcerated let alone get mail while doing time. Filipinos are a strange lot indeed, we tend to forget just about every bad things that happened to us during the past, and instead go on with our lives. Oh yeah, and still managed to smile in spite of the hardships facing them. A case in point will be the marcos clan. Got booted out of the country, spend a few years there, came back after a brief recluse outside of the country and viola! now, they are in congress. Isn't that amazing? That's the reason why i said we are a very forgiving society. Speaking of which, look what happened to the president of romania and his wife, they were executed by firing squad then hung to rot. I'm not saying that we should do this, just merely making a comparison of the facts at hand. The president of romania and his wife are very generous people i know that much. Just a thought. Really? I didn't know you're a "club med" member. Where? in the pacific? atlantic? maybe we could get together for a latte. Oh no! i think i may have invited you.
"Pambalot ng tinapa", i just saw this one today. What is "tinapa"? Is that the one with a shiny silvery scale? then smoke to perfection? hhhmmmm, i think i'm familiar with that fish, those we're good smoked fish. It goes nicely with coconut vinegar, garlic and peppercorn, of course, with a nice well cooked rice. I love those fish. Too bad, i don't have it here. Just a thought.
What is this? Is this your salary? why on earth are you always printing this? Are you talking about individual income of a finoy? And where do you get this? Do you work in the census department? Can you please explain this to me. Oh i get it! you're always reminding people that they should aim for this rate, right? If so, i think this rate won't even buy you a porterhouse or a rib eye steak in a good restaurant. Just a thought.
Speaking of which, a good red wine is not included at this rate.
Parang sa Africa, 'no? Yung mga leaders at pari nila, sobrang kontra sa contraception. Badtrip.
It is true that God commanded us in Genesis 1:28, when He created us (human beings) and blessed us and said " Have many children, so that your descendants will live all over the eath and bring it under their control"... God put Man to put in control in having children. If God is not for family planning, He will not say put in control...even in the beginning God already knows that there will come a time for population explosion ....so for those countries that understood this verse...they were the one who practice it first and most of them are the powerful nations now in our time. Other bible verses will say "subdue it" which means to bring under control; to reduce the intensity ( webster dictionary)
For the part of the government and the church...let's all face it that this two parts of our society since time inmemoriam always do the most toxicated things for our fellow countrymen. Personally speaking i really don't know what to say and what to do but i still believed that one day...my hope and dream will still come true. Inside me iam very frustrated and times hopeless too. But what i just think off is at least we have a country of our own and will just do whatever is best for it and PRAY for all the politicos, the powerful and the beast of this nation. Still God Lord Jesus is the one in control of eveything. They will be judge on whatever they do and face the consequences of whatever deeds they did. Thank you. This was just mainly the most dangerous assumption by the catholic church based on unproven and unscientific facts. Can we just make comments on what was going on in the Philippines and not mention anything about the "book" they said they have.
Y Nobody told her about tubal ligation? The church and some politicos are a perfect example of sheer hypocrisy. Work 17 times harder bah hambug! Atienza is fat from his wealth, the church officials are living fairly well off from their collections, DID THAT TOOK 17 times hard to be in those position? As what Sting is saying in one of his songs "everybody wants to look the other way when something wicked this way comes..." and that is exactly what we are all doing about this woman and to other social cancers we are deeply infected with.
She sow, so shall she reap.
Hardly you can fault the government or the priest. They don't give birth to 17 kids, she did. we are thriteen in a family and only if me mom never reached its "peak", we myt be as big as Luz's. but no regrets at all coz we can afford to eat thrice a day tho di nman mayaman parents me when they first met. me dad is a college undergrad and me mom is elementary grad but still able to raise us very well and send us all into college despite the growing poverty in our country. nasa atin ang problema so there's no use blaming both the church and the state.remember that we can never be conquered by whatsoever issues or anything if we didn't destroyed ourselves from within...
My own mom has 10 siblings. They help each other and most finished college and have done well. But more than half went abroad, a safety valve for the country's population pressure.
I am just scared of the threat that this kind of situation posed in our country economically. I hope government and the church will do something to EXECUTE a planned action to better manage our population growth.
ANG GOBYERNO NG PILIPINAS AY NAPAKA BULOK! I'm sorry to say that but it's just being too much. Why CONDOM is banned in Health Centres? Why? Is the budget for the rubber goes to someone else pocket? These people who bare too many kids are due to lack of knowledge. How will they control having too many kids if they will not be educated and supported by government to issue contraceptive pills? I don't see no standard in the Philippines. Kawawang mga mahihirap na pamilya na walang alam na kabuhayan kundi tumanggap ng labada, pedicab driver, namumulot ng basura and feed numbers of kids but only earn less than a $1.00/day. I love my land, I love my Country Philippines... But I don't love the way our government fight against poverty. I am hoping that one day with Gods Blessing I could able to help my people in the Philippines to give them a better life, education, and nutrition. I hope it's not too late yet....
The church and the state must give a good advise to the people like Luz. In fact, they are the one who must help the people regarding their needs, because they have funds and they received donations from every organizations. The church and the state must wake the minds of the Filipino people about loving their country and give knowledge about the importance of the family. Like the Chinese people they help one another, when someone is down they lifted up and give some help. Why don't the church and state open the minds of each and everyone concerning our lives? All of those politicians are interested about the power and corruptions. That's why Chinese are taking advantage in all of our resources. They buy everything, even illegal transactions are very legal. They are the one who controlled our lives. Some Filipinos are escaping the selfishness of the Chinese investors and corruptors, they flew to another country for a leaving which is better than the peso earnings. Why don't we prioritize our countrymen? Why don't we rule our country with clean leaving not dirty works, illegal process and red tape? Those are the teachings of the Chinese community which is very wrong. "Ang nagpapagulo sa Pilipinas ay ang mga intsik, tayo nagpapakahirap magpunta sa ibang bansa, sila labas pasok na wlang papeles man lang. Bumibili pa ng apelyido".
If you noticed while eating at the 5 star restaurant or hotel, who's eating inside? all of those are chinese, Filipinos are servants, waiter, employee, janitor in you own country. Ride a jeep I'll ask you if you saw a chinese? Look at the luxury cars, who's inside? Illegal drug who is the DrugLord? Who taught erap? Who owns SM? Tax evaders? Leaving in a good place? Owns everything here in the PHILIPPINES? But, Filipinos are the hardworkers who earns low. When salary comes "pambayad utang". Hope this will help us Filipinos, stand-up and wake-up this is an alarm! I would like to add my view point about our population growth. I believe that Church and state are both presenting what they think is right, for the people of God and to the constituents, in very diffrerent perspectives. Allow me to say that, Church interferes to the state's campaign of artificial birth controls.Maybe because God said "go to the world and multipy". Yes! this is definitely correct. However, the church's information about procreation is lacking. As far as i know, God's message regarding procreation entails not only multipying the number of people but to be RESPONSIBLE co-creator. We should procreate responsibly. Procreation tailors, making the children an asset our society and educate them so as it will help to minimize if not curtail the evilness in our society. THEREFORE, PROCREATE RESPONSIBLY. EDUCATE EACH SIBLING TO BE AN ASSET OF OUR SOCIETY AND CHURCH...
Responsibilidad sa magulang na mabigyan ng wastong pagkain,edukasyon ang bawat anak,pero kung ikaw anak ng anak dyan that means kaya mo silang buhayin...Huwag sisihin ang gobyerno,bakit habang gumagawa kayo ng bata nandyan ba sa harap ang presidente o kung sinong politiko sa harapan nyo habang gumawa kayo ng bata,magpakatotoo ka ate....Asawa ko nga nagpavasectomy na kahit 38 palang cya dahil ayaw na niyang magkaanak uli at isa pa maganda ang takbo ng buhay,may peace of mind pag tama lang ang pamilya....
yes tama ka jan tita. ako nga ayoko na talaga mag anak. may dalawa na me anak parang barkada ko na lang cla. may work na nga me pero takot pa ako sa bukas ng mga anak ko. sa hirap ng buhay ngayon wag ka nang magdamay ng buhay ng ibang tao i mean kung mahirap ka wag na mag anak ng marami. yun alam mo na kaya mo bigyan ng magandang edukasyon.
kasalanan parin yan ng mga tao at hindi gobyerno o simbahan. e pano kung hindi naimbento ang contraceptives? mag aanak na lang sila ng mag aanak na hindi man lang nag iisip na baka di nila masuportahan o mapakain ng maayos ang kanilang mga anak. sana maging mulat tayo sa epekto ng pag aanak ng marami. di mo kailangang hintayin ang gobyerno na turuan ka pa dahil alam mo naman ang tama at mali.
Para sa akin,ang pagkakaroon ng maraming anak ay minsan hindi yan gagustuhan ng personal,nagkataon na kulang siya ng kaalaman
sa maraming bagay,una sa pamilyang pinangalingan nya,bec,the first responsible,is the parents to guide his/her children e.g.educate in so many ways and most of all give love and affiction there children. kasi sa tutuo lang,maraming mga magulang na hindi alam ang Sense Of Responsibilty,so ang nangyayari ay nagiging cycle ng buhay.pero di rin ibig sabehin ay,JInx na ang maraimg anak ,dahil pag maraming anak may roon nag susuccess kaya may plus din. Since nasali na ang God sa healthy discussion na ito, Has anyone of you ever tought why God created us, the human being, as superior among His creations? Binigyan Niya tayo ng isip upang magamit natin to distinguish the right from the left...the right from wrong. And surely at the end of our day He will judge us from the way we used our "kukote"
He is so democratic to allow His creation to choose. Disin sana, lahat na lang ng bagay sa mundo is "tama" but then maraming mali judging from the way man uses that wisdom. Kung sinabi man ng Diyos na "Humayo kayo at magparami" kasabay noon binigyan Niya tayo ng isip para magamit natin, na after two children or three eh tama na. Nakapag-parami na tayo noon. Do you honestly think na magugustuhan ng Diyos na manganak tayo nang beyond our capacity to responsibly raise our family. I don't think so, but binigay Niya nga sa atin ang mag-isip at gumawa ng choice. i know someone from our liitle barrio in batangas who has more than 17 children...
poor little kids, some of them cant go to school and have to work at such a very young age! ung isa pa nga sa mga anak niya hindi na nakatira sa kanya, taking care of an old lady so as to earn a little money. at pati behavior ng mga anak niya, affected na rin. They were noisy, and would u imaginge these kids saying 'PI' and other vulgar words?! the family is too big so the parents are having a hard time to discipline their children. i think that's the painful truth. These kids aren't only deprive of comfortable and easy lives, also they are deprived of good/virtuous living. when i was in philippines i saw and i heard a lot of woman who had their own abortion on their own,they keep bleeding until they need to go to the hospital,,its too risky..over populated n tao s pilipinas and obviously ang hirap ng buhay,, i went to abortion even though we can afford to had another babies,,and its a big difference if the process of abortion is legal and u can have a proper care and counseling ..and its easy to be that way.
ano ang mainam na piliin natin? contraceptive or abortion? both are considered sin by the church. eh, kung ganun, saan tayo lulugar?
walang effect ang anti contraceptives unless its permanent like what they did in china such as tubal ligation and vasectomy and do you want it done here for all filipinos after having 2 children.
is it feasible to give condoms 300 days in a year to a poor man unless the condom is recyclable and how many condoms will be given free daily just to relatively prevent pregnancy. same with pills, how many pills have to be distributed monthly to our poor mothers for the duration of 30 years that they are fertile (age 15 to 45). is this feasible what is more important is educate them on the ill effects of large families, stop the macho image of filipino males na tamad at batugan na walang ginawa kundi maganak, make the parents more responsible. or siguro make a law na lahat ng batugan at tambay at iresponsableng pinoy ay kapunin. im a doctor and i think anticontraceptives are very inefficient and expensive espepecially on the part of govt unless its permanent. rich countries dont have this problem because of people are mostly educated but what they have are broken families, illegitimate children as a result of teenage pregnancies. god made the philippines to have more children to serve the dwindling and aging population of richer countries and what we should do is what is more doable like increasing the literacy of our people, educate them, to compete and provide labor to other countries and that will provide the good opportunities to their families for those who accept this challenge. dr willy veneracion chairman dept of medicine pjg hospital (govt hospital) "im a doctor and i think anticontraceptives are very inefficient and expensive espepecially on the part of govt unless its permanent."
The issue isn't even the fact that contraceptives are expensive. There are aid agencies willing to give them out for free - no cost to the government. The problem is that they're banned or illegal so you can't even give them away! "rich countries dont have this problem because of people are mostly educated but what they have are broken families, illegitimate children as a result of teenage pregnancies." I disagree. I think the first world prevents overpopulation because it gives people choices and access to the resources they need to act on those choices. Yes, education helps, but when you look at those living below the poverty line, those in the first world have access to free/cheap health services that allow them to exercise their choices. I also don't know what a "broken family" is. Single parent? Gay parents? No parents? If these families have the means to support their children, who are we to say they are any more "broken" than a two-parent family struggling to survive? I'm not sure whether the number of teenage pregancies in these countries are greater or less than the number in the Philippines. But in many places, the stigma attached to being "illegitimate" is nowhere near as big as it would be in the Philippines. we are given a choice to have small family or a large family so are the rich countries but the problem with some or many pinoys are them being irresponsible and i think the main problem is may mali sa attitude o culture ng pinoy unlike our other asean neighbors like chinese, viets, and even our poor asean neighbors which are very intrepreneural, masipag, and other better traits kaya tama si rizal about the indolence of the filipino people. we cannot always blame the government kasi maski sino ang nakaupo diyan pare-pareho lang iyan ke democratic, parliamentarian or even in china, there is graft and corruption.
with regards to services, hindi kaya ng gobyerno ibgay lahat unless your as rich as first world at malabo iyan sa bansa natin unless we change our attitude, vote the right people pero kaso corrupted and voter natin, maski opposition namimili din ng boto. so we have to do what is doable na lang. sa ugali ng pinoy, dictador and kailangan pero ayaw natin noon. ive heard mita pardo de tavera when ask what we can do with our poor people who cannot afford health services> thats natural selection theory ha ha ha siguro were better off without politics kasi sila sumisira ng lahat. with politics, i mean all of them rightist, leftist and centrist, including secessionist. dahil kung walang away, walang military, lahat ng government funds derecho sa peoples services. I kind of understand what you're saying, but in this particular example (Luz and her 17 kids), it seems to me that the mother is already working hard to support and care for her kids. I think Howie is very careful to point that out. I don't think indolence is the issue for this particular example. For this particular mother, the issues are: the only message she gets about contraception is that it's wrong; even if she wants to use contraception, it's banned from public hospitals; the government and church prohibit contraception but they provide inadequate support to help her raise her children. The only solution the government and church advise--to work harder, as though she weren't already doing the work of two people--is an insult.
There are NGOs willing to provide free or cheap contraception, but if they face opposition from church and government, it will be more difficult for them to reach the people who are in most need. It's one thing to say the government can't afford to subsidise contraception. It's another thing to ban it and then turn around and say to a woman that she has to work harder because she's having more kids. Hi Kat, That was a neat summary of the story and issues.
"dahil kung walang away, walang military, lahat ng government funds derecho sa people's services"
I really don't understand the logic on this one, nothing personal though. Just about in any given society, you must have at least crime of some sort. There is no such thing as a group of people living in a society devout of crime. Conflict is one of the major job creation ever since man invented fire. Why do you think the Iraq war is still going on? Let me put it this way in a layman's language. Without crime and or conflict, there is no need for us to have law enforcement officers (police), lawyers to bring the respondents (accused) to court, judges to try the case, stenographers, bailiffs and so many people who are relying mainly on a person who just committed a crime. In other words, having a "zero crime" in any given society is not realistic. It would be short of saying that there's no need for us to have doctors because we have eradicated all the deceases known to man. Of course, i'm pretty sure that the thought of that would probably send shivers up your a,,,ss. Conversely, we need to have people with little intelligence or none at all to a certain degree or you and me will be out of a job. Just a thought. luz has the right and freedom of choice pero wala siyang magawa kasi sunud sunuran lang siya sa mga naging asawa niya saka sa pinoy na lalake hanggang hindi nakaka junior o lalake e anak ng anak yan para maipagpatuloy ang apelyido maski hirap na kasi sarili lang ang iniiisip ni tatay hindi kinabukasan ng pamilya.
saka may thinking ang pinoy na pag marami ang anak marami ang bubuhay sa magulang. with regards to contraception hindi bawal yan sa govt hospital, tubal ligation is free if you want, so kung may isip si luz alam niya dapat niyang gawin. there are lots of wrong traits with pinoy, some examples sa probinsiya, isinasabong muna ang pera bago pamilya o kaya pag may pera ubusan ng pera sa beerhouse with regards to NGO how many can they supply, if they want to give free contraceptives with or without govt support they can do it. pero ang alam ko tapos na yung UN pop com program. if we have 20 million who will need condoms, can they supply it on a daily basis. e kung isang araw lang yung supply nila it will not make a dent on pop growth kaya nga inefficient siya. dati, they pushed for injectable contraceptives pero tinira naman ng NGOs na nakakacancer o nakakasterilize daw We seem to think that the government is going to solve this population explosion problem. They haven't done a thing except go with what the Catholic church tells to do.
It is simply irresponsible to make a lot of babies with so little resources to give them the life that they deserve. "We seem to think that the government is going to solve this population explosion problem. They haven't done a thing except go with what the Catholic church tells to do."
You'd be surprised. There are a number of local government initiatives in place to control population growth, but no one likes to give them too much publicity in case the Church notices and starts meddling. It IS possible. "It is simply irresponsible to make a lot of babies with so little resources to give them the life that they deserve." It's also irresponsible to claim to represent your constituents when you're unable to act in their best interests. It's too easy to say the government is corrupt and we can't expect any more from them. That doesn't really help, either. Population control is clearly a problem. The government needs to find the guts to tackle it and spend the money to fix it. Yes, parents are also responsible. That's the point. Everyone needs to play a part - we can't just blame this group or that group and exclude another group. It's a social problem. Our government has a track record of not playing a part in population control. So it is up to the parents to be responsible when people in power refused to be. Charity begins at home. So is love, responsibility, money management, respect etc. We have to face the fact that in cases like this, we are on our own. It is up to us parents to be responsible and teach responsibility to our kids.
QOUTE: There are a number of local government initiatives in place to control population growth, but no one likes to give them too much publicity in case the Church notices and starts meddling. Isn't this a sad commentary on how things really work in our country? These initiatives really have no teeth to do what they are supposed to do because well it just won't make the Church happy. Which brings me to my point: WE ARE ON OUR OWN. It is UP TO US to be responsible when our government refuse to help. "These initiatives really have no teeth to do what they are supposed to do because well it just won't make the Church happy."
My statement was a little unclear. Those local initiatives I mentioned are actually working. They do have "teeth" and those local mayors and governors are savvy enough to manage various lobby groups, including the church. I don't expect the government to solve this issue, but I do expect it to help. The problem is not with "government" as a vague concept or institution, but individuals within the government who are driven by their personal agendas. And yes, I agree that Luz is on her own (well, figuratively). And that, to me, is a very sad thing. I just want to say that I don't think I'm right and everyone's wrong. I know people see things differently. I view population control as a parent's responsibility. It just makes sense that we work on what ever resources we have.
I truly enjoyed your comments Kat because they make me think. Carmi, I think we posted at the same time! Same here. I'm not picking on you or anything - I've just found your comments interesting and great starting points for ideas. This entire issue is really complex but it's something I've mulled about for a quite some time after I heard about Atienza's ban on contraception in a documentary. It's obvious from the long comments thread that this is something that a lot of people find important. At least we all agree on that.
I think part of the debate is about what role we think government should play in our lives. I happen to agree with Carmi that parents bear the main responsibility for their children. But I also believe, like Kat, that government must be responsible as well for the welfare of citizens and all who live within its borders. Even if government has been a failure in this regard, we cannot stop making it account for its obligations. As a tax payer, I have a right to demand better services.
whenever a person was able to experience working overseas like here in canada and other countries citizens are paying their taxes religiously in the sense that they can really feel and see that the taxes they are paying are coming back to them in terms of health care, senior citizens benefits, to the poor , infrastructures and many more program even in the library alone you can use computers for free and yes taxpayers has all the rights to demand to the gov't. what she/he needed because they know that they have all the rights to obtain services from the country since they are a taxpayer and it was so amazing just a phone call at once their is a response for any concern you want to extend to the government authority.
whew! as if I can't believe that at this point in time there is still a woman who was able to bore more than a dozen of kids with the present economic situation in the philippines and I really pity the consequences of what will happened to the children of luz. yes for sure the government has no obligations to the family since we don't know where are the funds for the urban poor are..if they have! and the church could not really extend any help with this kind of situation and Priests even encourage quoting the word from the Bible "Go Ye and Multiply" because that is an added income for the church during infant baptism marriage funeral and other income generating expenses of the family given to the church as we all know even how poor are the family they needed church services such as being stated and the alikes.
Just hope that Luz can make it and for her children to take their situation as an inspiration to go on strive towards a better future and their poverty will not hinder them in their struggles towards a better life. Nobody in either the church or state can feed you that is why help yourselves its so hard in the beginning but time comes every sibling can make it and unity and inspiration may be in everyones heart it makes you different someday. am not very much concern with Luz anymore because what can we do now for her being so irresponsible but am more on the wellbeing of her children. It's perfect that people can receive the personal loans moreover, this opens up completely new opportunities.
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QuicksearchAbout SidetripMISSION
This blog will attempt to find relevance in the exotic and the commonplace, value the undervalued, and satisfy my personal curiosity about all things that have anything to do with being Filipino. Howie Severino is a journalist, documentary maker, mentor, father, husband, patriot and pilgrim. He does two main gigs on television: I-Witness, GMA Network's pioneering documentary program, and Sine Totoo, a showcase for some of GMA's best non-fiction public affairs programming. For four years, Howie also reported on culture and travel in the quirky Sidetrip sa Saksi stories on the late night news. He has also worked at, in reverse chronological order, The Probe Team (reporter), Phil. Center for Investigative Journalism (staff), The Manila Chronicle (reporter), The Journal Weekender (editor), Department of Health (speechwriter), Ateneo de Manila High School (teacher), the Philippine Embassy in Wash. D.C. (writer), the Boston Common (pretzel vendor), McDonald's (grill cook), newspaper delivery boy, choirboy. In the mid 1990s, Howie wrote a column in the Manila Times called Moving Mountains, which explored environmental issues and trends. His email: howieseverino@gmail.com  Shotlisting in Aceh after a day of covering the aftermath of the Asian tsunami, January 2005. (Photo by Aye Navarro) Top banner photo of Howie in Culion, Palawan by Ella Evangelista Calendar
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